Typical modern political journalism

Unfortunately, its not a defect but a feature.

A revealing article, over on Politico, by John Harris describing the media hype process with the latest example. Harris encouraged Jonathan Martin to get the take, "Wow. Maybe she has come unhinged?" up on the net asap:

Here is what I said: Martin, quick get that item up!
And then to push it further by calling up the cooperating Obama campaign for a quote, then they hype it some more, and then they actually see the quote in context, and realize its nothing but an item that Clinton has previously stated to reference the primary schedule:
Martin was quick getting the item about Clinton's Argus Leader comment up on his Politico blog.

But not as quick as The New York Post, which was the first outside South Dakota to notice Clinton's inflammatory remarks (Martin himself knew about Clinton's remarks from the New York tabloid's story). The Associated Press, in what looked at first blush like a classic example of what reporters call "burying the lead," had no mention of Clinton's RFK remarks in its original dispatch on the interview.

I urged Martin to keep his foot on the gas: Be the first to post reaction from the Obama campaign. Obama spokesman Bill Burton quickly obliged, denouncing Clinton's comments and saying such sentiments have "no place in this campaign." Burton's comments quickly went into Martin's blog post. Soon enough, several websites and cable news outlets were giving the story trumpet-blaring treatment.

Perhaps half an hour after the story broke Martin called me back over to his desk. It turned out the Argus Leader had video of its big interview. I huddled over Martin's computer as we watched.

It was a deflating experience.

The RFK remarks were deep in a 20-minute clip of an otherwise routine conversation. Then, once we actually got to the relevant portion of the video, it was hardly an electric moment.

Clinton does indeed mention the Kennedy assassination, speaking in a calm and analytical tone: "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California."

Martin and I both thought we saw a slight twinge in Clinton's facial expression, as though she recognized she had just said something dumb.

Whether she recognized it or not, she had.

But it was also clear that Clinton's error was not in saying something beyond the pale but in saying something that pulled from context would sound as if it were beyond the pale.

It would be a big story if Clinton said something like this: "Hey, I know it looks bad for me now. But, think about it. Obama could get shot and I'd get to be the nominee after all."

It is a small story if Clinton said something like this: "Everyone talks like May is incredibly late, but by historical standards it is not. Think of all the famous milestones in presidential races that have taken place during June."

It seems pretty obvious that the latter is what Clinton meant, and not too far from what she actually said. It was not surprising that the Argus Leader's executive editor, Randall Beck, put out a statement saying, "Her reference to Mr. Kennedy's assassination appeared to focus on the time line of his primary candidacy and not the assassination itself."

Make no mistake. Clinton stepped on a rake with her comment and got bopped in the face. This was entertaining political slapstick, for those of us who like that kind of thing. Little wonder she apologized.

But Clinton's clumsiness does not excuse news media clumsiness in making a minor story seem like a major one. A note on the randomness of the news: If this really was a big story, then the media has blown it for months. Clinton made similar remarks to Time magazine back in March. (The Wall Street Journal reporter with Clinton has an entertaining look at how the pack traveling with the candidate initially missed the story.)

There's no going back; this 24/7 uncontextual 'gotcha' type of politics is here to stay. What does happen though, is that any the response by the candidate, or others in the media, quickly establishes, within a day or two, the validity of the story. Here, there is none at all, and aside from viewing it as a specimen of the day's catch, it fades away.



Display:


BO and Friends are singing a different (1.66 / 3)

tune today:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/wo rld/us_and_americas/us_elections/article 3998946.ece

My favorite part:  

"Senior officials on Obama's campaign believe Bill Clinton has the unique status and political gifts to reunite the party after such gaffes. They expressed confidence that the former president would rise above the perceived slights and grudges of a hard-fought campaign and work flat out for an Obama victory in November's presidential election.

"If anybody can put their arms around the party and say we need to be together, it is Bill Clinton," a senior Obama aide said.

"He's brilliant, he has got heart and he cares deeply about the country. It's tricky because of his position as Hillary's spouse, but his involvement is very important to us.

"Bill Clinton will give permission to Hillary supporters to come into our camp and become one party. He is critical to this effort."

HA.  Not going to happen!


by CoyoteCreek on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:24:43 PM EST

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (2.00 / 2)

I bet you Bill Clinton is as p&ssed as can be.  

I said the other day with this fake outrage story that Bill Clinton should get on the phone with every superdelegate and tell to them, no campaigning, no fundraising, you are on your own.  

The shit has to stop.  

Note that Hillary has promised to work her heart out for the nominee. Bill hasn't.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:34:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (none / 0)

Seriously, I'm not sure Clinton is needed on the campaign trail.  If Hillary herself had to keep him under wraps, what good would he do Obama?


by interestedbystander on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:04:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (none / 0)

But I think he didn't because he is a little like the attack dog in the Clinton campaign. He is the guy who fires up the local crowds, visiting a dozen events a day...
it just wouldn't make sense for him to go "soft" before the primaries are officially over.
But when he endorses it will be a so much bigger deal. If that day comes, I'm sure it will be an extraordinary event/speech that no one want's to miss.

by standd on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:07:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's because Bill is a petulant little man (none / 0)

I've gone back and forth on my views of Hillary, but in my heart I view her as a person with more integrity and ideas than Bill, whose selfishness is practically a defining characteristic.


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:06:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (1.66 / 3)

It would be delicious if Bill campained for Hillary supporters in their districts, but didn't for Obama.  Bill could claim that he'd overshadow the nominee and undermine his message of CHANGE! and INSPIRATION!(TM).  

After all, Bill Clinton had no ideas, and according to Obama, Bill's presidency was just more of the status quo, not of the HOPE!(TM) and CHANGE!(TM) variety.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:37:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (2.00 / 1)

Good to know that you are supporting the GOP now.

Have fun with your war and your tax breaks for the rich and oh yeah say goodbye to Roe V. Wade for me.


ENOUGH!
by JDF on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:20:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (none / 0)

By the way, I notice that timesonline is a bit like MSNBC.  I see a lot of shilling from them, and repeating Camp O's talking points.


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:41:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ball bearings on sale at TruValue (none / 0)

Nice big ones you can clutch and knead furiously  while typing with one hand.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:46:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (2.00 / 1)

Allow me to play along.  This is a fun game.

Suppose Obama wanted to make a point that political dynasties are not a good thing, and to support his case he mentioned that Indira Ghandi was ... well, you know.

I'm sure Jerome would be cool with that.

I'm sure Hillary would be fine with that.

They've been very level-headed, reasonable for months now.


by ClementeR on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:52:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (none / 0)

Good analogy.


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:07:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (none / 0)

Excellent!


by hawkseye on Mon May 26, 2008 at 06:54:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (none / 0)

I'm glad you love the Obama's campaign spin Coyote.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:53:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

HA! Not me. I thnk this is hysterical (1.00 / 4)

and incredibly stupid.  Which is what I've seen all along from Bo and his supporters.


by CoyoteCreek on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:17:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL!!! (none / 0)

AGAIN!

AT YOU!!!!


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:36:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL!!! (none / 0)

Kinda not Wiley, eh?


by ReillyDiefenbach on Mon May 26, 2008 at 11:40:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't be silly they don't want Bill. (2.00 / 1)

They don't want Bill on the campaign trail  as a uniter or any other way.  This is them sending a message to him, to tell his wife its over before she further destroys your legacy, and makes you remembered as the villians of the Democratic Party.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just another attempt to make her quit? (none / 0)

Not going to happen - we go to the convention...with Bill et al right by her side.


by CoyoteCreek on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:18:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Petulant bitchery... (1.33 / 3)

from the folks that gave us Fingergate.

Your feigned outrage is noted.

Why it is so difficult for the Clinton camp to be apologetic is beyond me.

It's just the "Mr. Fuji" defense over and over again.  They hit you, mock Obama followers as cultists, deride his oratory skills(because she doesn't have any and his dwarf Bubba's), propogate one b.s. attack after another(thank you SusanHu and Alegre!) and then turn around with righteous indignity because people stand up to them or hit back.

The sun is setting on the Clinton legacy of mediocrity and duplicity and thank God for that.


by jaywillie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 06:38:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (none / 0)

Think it was a slip? Same slip 4 times?
Four days after ABC polled that 59% of Americans feared for Obama's safety, Hillary started talking assassination.

Hillary is brilliant. She practices plausible deniability better than anyone. To understand her you must play close attention. Remember, you are not nearly as smart as she is. Way past the top of her class at Wellesley.

This site has the facts and sources: http://zfacts.com


Steve at zFacts
by zFacts on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:57:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO and Friends are singing a different (none / 0)

This comment should not be TR'd.  How sensitive ARE people anyway?  Uprated.


by Montague on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:28:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She assassinated her VP chances, Jerome. (2.00 / 2)

Hope this means you're a step closer to accepting Obama as the nominee of the party you purport to belong to.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:25:22 PM EST

Resistance is futile, Jerome... (2.00 / 3)

I like that.. "she destroyed her chances"...

And the spin goes on.. the spin goes on...


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:26:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Got a good laugh from you sigline. (none / 0)

Good thing the primary started on March 4th and not on January 3rd. Oh, wait a minute.....


by edg1 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Got a good laugh from you sigline. (none / 0)

Oh, wait a minute.. its not over??

Hillary will win the popular vote, and neither candidate will have enough delegates??

WHy is everyone saying it's over??


by dembluestates on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:00:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Got a good laugh from you sigline. (none / 0)

hahah popular vote, I love the latest meme!!!


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Got a good laugh from you sigline. (2.00 / 2)

Jerome, thanks for this post.  And thanks for the earlier one on the media's treatment of the bitter comments.  And thanks to all the Clinton supporters who spoke up on Obama's behalf by letting America know he didn't mean anything untoward.  I mean, it's not like his opponent took a gaffe (bitter) and tried to exploit it over and over and over again (elitist) (I'll have a beer chaser) (hardworking people, white people) (elitist, looking down their nose) (them us, them us.

And a warning: complaining about the media can get you called a whiner.


by niksder on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:36:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Got a good laugh from you sigline. (none / 0)

I said nothing about it's end date, only it's start date. FAIL!


by edg1 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 06:36:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Obama Drama Campaign" (1.60 / 5)

No wonder they hate that phrase so much... its true..


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:25:32 PM EST

Re: "Obama Drama Campaign" (2.00 / 3)

Hate?  No just find it laughable that you're projecting Hillary's disarray onto probably the most composed and disciplined campaign in US political history.  


by interestedbystander on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:07:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Drama Campaign" (none / 0)

Good for Clinton that the DNC has agreed to start counting on March 4th! Is your view of the scoreboard obscured?


by niksder on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:42:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Laughable (none / 0)


by ReillyDiefenbach on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:51:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yep, and it's also Karmic (in an awful way) (2.00 / 3)

What works for us Obama lovers today will work against us tomorrow.  Gotcha politics sinks all ships (and we on the left have sunk our fair share of politicians with macaca-gotcha moments played ad infinitum on the web).  

I will say this for the Obama campaign: they largely resist playing the gotcha game, unlike other candidates.  Their response to this last gaffe of Hillary's was muted (far more so than Hillary's response to Obama's bitter gaffe).

But here's the thing: campaign season shouldn't be a gaffe-off.  We all should be voting for the person who is best on policy, not the person who never makes a mistake in front of a microphone.

If we wanted that, we'd elect Mitt Romney president.


by maconblue on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:26:10 PM EST

Pot calling the kettel black.. (2.00 / 3)

>"I will say this for the Obama campaign: they largely resist playing the gotcha game, unlike other candidates. "

Did you read the diary?


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:27:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pot calling the kettel black.. (2.00 / 3)

Well, if you've been following the actual story, you would know that the quoted article replaces the word "Unfortunate" with the word denounced, and then fails to mention that Axelrod strongly defended Clinton's statement a few hours later, that Obama didn't comment on it the first day, instead simply praising Clinton in a campaign speech, and then the next day he clearly stated that it was the sort of unfortunate phrasing that anyone under the microscope of a political campaign makes from time to time, and phrased the comment in such a way that if you had somehow missed the tempest in the teapot on Friday, you wouldn't know what Clinton had said, ensuring that his comment couldn't reignite the tempest for anyone.

So merely reading an excerpt from an article in which the culprits attempt to expiate themselves and try to spread the blame onto the Obama campaign (and which misspells "lede") may not be the best basis for understanding what actually happened.


by letterc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:16:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Unfortunate" ain't gotcha politics. (none / 0)

It's just common sense.  Even Hillary says it's unfortunate.


by maconblue on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:47:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep, and it's also Karmic (in an awful way) (1.80 / 5)

Pish posh.

Obama exploits gaffes the way Bush did in his campaign: he allows his surrogates to do the bashing while he plays the good cop, the magnanimous one.

At least Hillary has the guts and temerity to do her own criticizing.


by Juno on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:28:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep, and it's also Karmic (in an awful way) (none / 0)

Obama is Bush. The new meme from the deadenders.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep, and it's also Karmic (in an awful way) (2.00 / 1)

Hardly new.  I've seen similarities all along.  At least he's much smarter, has not personality disorders (except for narcissism), and has the correct political and social philosophy.


by Juno on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:56:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep, and it's also Karmic (in an awful way) (none / 0)

So actually he's nothing like bush at all

Thanks


by CaptainMorgan on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:20:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep, and it's also Karmic (in an awful way) (none / 0)

what else does the backwash have?  Their candidate said something stupid and now its Obama's fault.

That is some fine logic there Lou!


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:56:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep, and it's also Karmic (in an awful way) (2.00 / 2)

"Backwash"?

This is how inspired folks who want change and hope and an end of divisive politics refer to other human beings?

Interesting.


by Juno on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep, and it's also Karmic (in an awful way) (2.00 / 1)

Juno-
I've been reading your comments and it seems like you try to incite people and then act offended when by their incited responses.  

Comparing Obama to Bush and then getting righteous at another poster seems a bit hypocritical.

I think it's important to know, for the record, that this is the second time Clinton has brought up the RFK analogy (and it is an analogy) not the first.  Even if one accepts the legitimacy of the analogy, and I don't, it's ahistorical.  RFK joined the race in March! His death occurred after 13 primaries!  So, not only is Hillary's comparison illogical and offensive, but it is totally invalid from a historical perspective.

That said, I agree it shouldn't be the end all be all of this election and am happy that Obama and Axlrod have dismissed it. In the wake of Hillary's absurd treatment of the Wright issue, I think it is false to claim she would have done anything except take advantage of a comparable gaffe.  
 


by chrispy on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:11:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep, and it's also Karmic (in an awful way) (none / 0)

Change, hope, end of divisive politics.

This is the "new politics'?

This is the "unity"?

I love these new talking points.

Way to stay on message Juno!


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:13:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep, and it's also Karmic (in an awful way) (none / 0)

You must be joking

Clinton's use of surrogates to get the dirtiest dirt on Obama out there this season has been nothing short of breathtakingly ugly

You people still on the Clinton train are in la la land already; fine, let her finish the race, I really don't care

She is simply and methodically destroying her own career and reputation, and it isn't really hurting the democratic nominee for president


by fightbull on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:26:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Unfortunate" does not = bashing (none / 0)

See Hillary on "bitter" for bashing.  And as for Obama as Bush, the comparison is just too fatuous to warrant reply.


by maconblue on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:50:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical modern political journalism (2.00 / 3)

What's so ironic is that, Michelle Obama is correct: Americans are mean. They're mean to others, they're mean to each other, and the press is no exception.

This was about nothing more than continuing to beat up on one woman for the pure sport of it.

And Michelle Obama has gotten beaten up about her comment too.

It's the Mean Season in America.


by Juno on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:27:33 PM EST

Re: Typical modern political journalism (none / 0)

Very good point. I'm sorry that you are just now realizing what many of us knew all along.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:38:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical modern political journalism (2.00 / 2)

What in my post indicates to you that I'm just now realizing it?

Btw, I wrote a letter to Jeff Jacoby today in defense of Michelle Obama and in response to his current column, which can be read at realpolitics.com, despite the fact that I don't support Obama.  But I'm sick of people willfully distorting and applying their own negative meaning to things other people say.

When was the last time you think an Obama supporter wrote a letter in defense of Sen. Clinton?

Obamans are full o' eet.


by Juno on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:42:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical modern political journalism (none / 0)

Actually, I'm an Obama supporter who has more than once defended Clinton and criticized Obama supporters, including the grandparent. Do I count?


John McCain Hates Poor People
by pneuma on Sun May 25, 2008 at 06:39:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Karma's a bitch (2.00 / 4)

I wonder if Senator Clinton regrets pouncing all over bitter-gate and going on and on about it for days and days.

She even made political ads based on it....

You reap what you sow.

and FYI.. IMO both these incidents are silly nonsense


by CaptainMorgan on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:28:39 PM EST

Re: Karma's a bitch (none / 0)

then what you're saying is that Obama is NOT about change.

So he's lying???


by Juno on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:39:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He didn't say that... (none / 0)

...but I'll give this attempt at word-mouth stuffing a 2/10. You'd have scored higher if you'd worked in an imaginary scandal or two.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:40:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He didn't say that... (2.00 / 1)

Au contraire.

Clinton isn't running on ending politics-as-usual.

I may disagree with her and I may not like such tacitcs, but I expect them from her, and I have a certain amount of realism about the fact that nice doesn't work in American politics.

But Obama and his supporters love to trumpet all the time about how anti-all-that he is. So to try to create a good-for-the-gander-what's-good-for-the- goose argument ain't gonna fly.

It negates Obama's raisin d'etre.  It does not Hillary's.


by Juno on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:49:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not trumpeting anything. (none / 0)

And my candidate isn't the one trying to change the rules midstream.

Better luck in 2016.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:51:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not trumpeting anything. (2.00 / 2)

True.

He's just trying to win a la Bush in '00: by NOT counting votes.


by Juno on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:54:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not trumpeting anything. (none / 0)

Oh dear God, not this crap again.  Please can we have just one diary without it?


by interestedbystander on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:10:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not trumpeting anything. (none / 0)

What a pile of bs that is.


by herenow on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:13:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not trumpeting anything. (none / 0)

Bush was trying to not count votes in Florida that could change the outcome of the race.  

The votes you accuse Obama of not counting can not change the outcome.  

Not to mention the caucus votes HRC supporters try not to count.  You know, the ones which already have changed the outcome?


by semiquaver on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:15:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Karma's a bitch (2.00 / 2)

Please compare how Hillary and her campaign handled bittergate to how Obama and his campaign handle the JFK issue?  Is it even close?


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:12:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Karma's a bitch (none / 0)

This is a complete non sequitur.


by letterc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Karma's a bitch (2.00 / 5)

For real.

Cry me a river, Jerome.

I don't recall any Clinton supporters wringing their hands over how the media jumped all over the bitter comment.

Oh wait, that's because Hillary and her surrogates incorporated it into their speeches the very same day and didn't let up until after Pennsylvania.

Remember, kids: any Obama gaffe is proof that he is an elitist who is dangerously unready for the bright lights of a national campaign. Any Clinton gaffe is the work of the insidious media twisting her words unfairly.

Really, if the race weren't all but over I'd be outraged. Now I just roll my eyes and think, "Whatever gets you through June 3."


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:09:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Karma's a bitch (none / 0)

They put out ads too.

Here's the link for those who have short memories.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZO4ktKHf RQ

Hillary's Pennsylvania ads were something special.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:28:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fortunately Obama's remarks have never ... (2.00 / 6)

been leapt upon by a willing competitor's campaign or the news media.  Think where we'd be if someone had highlighted "bitter" or "57 states" or "face scratching".  Whew, Obama has been lucky no one noticed any of those.


by edg1 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:29:18 PM EST

Re: Fortunately Obama's remarks have never ... (none / 0)

C'mon, no Clinton supporter would do that. Jeez, that would be like examining his kindergarten records or researching his wife's school thesis. There's just not that much tinfoil around.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Sun May 25, 2008 at 07:29:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bill will try to reunite the party (2.00 / 2)

Because there is nothing President Clinton loves more than to be adored. Reuniting the party will allow him to be front and center once again. People will be walking  up to him imploring him to save the Democratic Party - and he will believe that only he can do it. And that's what he will do.  


by highgrade on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:34:45 PM EST

Re: Bill will try to reunite the party (none / 0)

Exactly. What I got from Obama's remarks about Clinton was that he was stroking Bill's ego. That will make Bill happy and he'll feel appreciated and be willing to help in the election. I think they'll know how to talk to him.


by Becky G on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:13:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey Jerome (2.00 / 3)

I agree.  And I've said all along Hillary's comment was clearly not what it was being made out to be.

That said, you should've done the same thing with the "Bitter" comment and Michelle's "proud" comment, rather than doing exactly what you just accused others in the media of doing.  It was shameful then as well.


Let's elect a Dem President!
by SpanishFly on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:44:32 PM EST

Re: Hey Jerome (2.00 / 1)

Yep. Clinton demonstrated the definition of "gotcha" politics, and based her entire PA campaign on the "bitter" kerfuffle. Clinton's RFK remark was simply thoughtless, as was Obama's bitter remark. But Jerome, my friend, look at the two camps' responses...Clinton swayed in the back of a pickup truck, pounded shots of whiskey and dropped the g's on the ends of her words while making incredible, mock-indignant hay of Obama's gaffe. Obama simply quickly said he believed her, and even defended her by sympathizing with how tiring this campaigning is.

I usually avoid your posts, because they lose all credibility in their extreme pro-Clinton, anti-Obama  view. But, as a self-proclaimed Democrat, are you ever going to look at Obama with even slightly objective eyes? Because he is going to be our next President, and your blog just serves to undermine him in this election.


by magnoliagirl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:13:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical modern political journalism (2.00 / 6)

What does happen though, is that any the response by the candidate, or others in the media, quickly establishes, within a day or two, the validity of the story.

Exactly.  Which is why the initial response by the Obama campaign was so impressive.  Even with the media trying to stoke a controversy, they issued a totally tepid statement and then, within hours, were on the air defending Hillary.  I'm very proud of how they handled this.


Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:45:25 PM EST

Re: Typical modern political journalism (2.00 / 1)

so why were they circulating the dumb KO special comment ?


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:48:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical modern political journalism (none / 0)

because that is what they do in campaigns.  We are not baking cookies here this is a fight for the nomination.  Hillary put a gift right in Obama's lap and he took the appropriate measure.  

Personally I would have milked it for what it is worth, but I understand why Obama held back.


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:58:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical modern political journalism (2.00 / 1)

I'd rather they didn't.  All this will be over in less than two weeks, so if the campaign was circulating that I'd condemn that action.

What is true without a doubt in my mind is that the initial response that the remarks were "unfortunate" was incredibly mild and his campaign did defend her publically after context was provided.  Trying to lay the blame for this on Obama is pathetic.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:09:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical modern political journalism (none / 0)

"Trying to lay the blame for this on Obama is pathetic."

Yep.

And, by the way, were's the proof the Obama Campaign is circulating the Olbermann video?  Just because someone here says it doesn't mean it's true.  I hadn't heard this.

Also, the Olbermann Special Comment condemned her for not having the smarts to avoid using the words she used given the obvious danger Obama is in.  Frankly, I agree.  I don't think Hillary meant she "hopes someone does it" like many but I do think her sloppy use of language was dangerous and Keith was right to call her out.


Let's elect a Dem President!
by SpanishFly on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:14:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical modern political journalism (none / 0)

Yeah, I agree with the KO Special Comment, but I don't think the Obama campaign should be circulating it. I've seen it mentioned in a news article but it didn't say at what level it was being circulated.  For all I know, no-name-staffer-01 sent out an email.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:18:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical modern political journalism (1.33 / 3)

Jerome, what are you going to do after Obama is officially the nominee?  Your articles and "graphs" now only pander to the HI44 crowd...  

Which gets you a traffic spike for now, but do you really think such a specific demographic will continue to be viable to support this site?  

You should have a conversation with "Admin", maybe together you could get started on HI45.com, or even CI47.com...


by dkm201 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:48:46 PM EST

Re: Typical modern political journalism (1.00 / 2)

Gee, another Obama concern troll...

Jerome and we will be just fine, thanks.  

Even better without you.


by dembluestates on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's have a pity party. (2.00 / 2)

Poor Hillary. A victim of the media.

Poor poor thing.

I am sure it never happened to anyone else, nor that anyone would expect such things over controversial statemenst like, 'clinging to gun and god' or the 'assasination of RFK'.

Her comment was tasteless at best.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:49:36 PM EST

Re: Let's have a pity party. (none / 0)

Did you read the article?  THE WHOLE THING WAS MANIPULATED.

Wait 'til they throw stuff like this at Obama.  Maybe then you won't be so nonchalant.


by dembluestates on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:55:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's have a pity party. (2.00 / 4)

We don't have to wait.  We've had Wright and Bitter, situations that Hillary exploited for weeks after.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's have a pity party. (2.00 / 1)

apples and oranges.

A more apt analogy is what the GOP is trying to do with Michelle Obama's "proud" comment.

Wright is a legitimate issue and a real problem, and Obama was making a broad judgment about a huge bloc of voters, not recalling a timeline and truthful historic event.


by Juno on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:00:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's have a pity party. (none / 0)

And the flag pin and Ayers.  However, another good equivalent was the "Dean scream".  I saw that as it happened and thought nothing of it. Then when I saw how the media had cut out everything except the scream part it made him look crazy and effectively ended his campaign. That was sad but it does happen in many campaigns. It has happened to Obama but he is too skilled to let them bring him down. That's one reason I don't worry about him. One reason it resonated when Clinton made the RFK comments is that she is seen as a person who will do or say anything to get elected. Otherwise it no one would have interpreted it the way they did.


by Becky G on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:22:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's have a pity party. (none / 0)

MMmmm..Becky. Smart.  

It was supposed to be exactly like the Dean Scream, but seems like John Harris has had second thoughts about the lynching.

Do you wonder just how people got the idea "She will do anything to get elected?"


by dembluestates on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's have a pity party. (none / 0)

The RFK example was in no way analogous to HRC's behavior in this campaign.

1.  The first primary in 1968 was March 12.  When Gene McCarthy came in a close second, the sitting president, LBJ, dropped out.

2.  Then RFK and Hubert Humphrey announced their candidacies.

3.  There were only 13 primaries that year.  

4.  The California primary was held in June, as it has been up until this year, and of course represented lots of votes.  RFK won it and then was assasinated.

5.  The Democratic convention was masterminded and gavelled by Mayor Richard Daily of Chicago.  Humphrey was basically chosen by maneuvering, despite the fact that he supported the war and neither of the other two candidacies which together held the majority of the delegate votes represented pro-war stands.

6.  The discord of this campaign was reflected in violent riots in the streets outside the convention, violent largely because of the behavior of the Chicago cops.

7.  The outcome of this was that many Democrats voted for Nixon, who promised to end the war.

8.  Nixon won.

Do you and Jerome still consider this analogy apt?

6.  


by texasobserver on Sun May 25, 2008 at 06:15:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's have a pity party. (2.00 / 1)

Photobucket


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:01:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's have a pity party. (2.00 / 1)

Someone recently said....

"If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" and other sort of stuff.

Well...


by telfishbackagain on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:03:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mentioning an assasination as (2.00 / 1)

a time reference for how long to stay in a campaign, where you opponent is a black man is beyond tasteless.

People were outraged with good reason. They should be.

The only reason Clinton isn't being excoriated is her husband is an ex-president and people are willing to somewhat give her the benefit of the doubt.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:05:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kennedy are outraged (none / 0)


http://www.nypost.com/seven/05252008/new s/nationalnews/kennedys_feel_bobby_socke d_112469.htm

Looks like the NY Post wants to milk their scoop as much as they can. It was a mistake. She comitted a blunder.

The MSM and the gotcha politics they peddle will not go away.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:50:39 PM EST

Re: Typical modern political journalism (2.00 / 2)

Jerome said:
"There's no going back; this 24/7 uncontextual 'gotcha' type of politics is here to stay. What does happen though, is that any the response by the candidate, or others in the media, quickly establishes, within a day or two, the validity of the story. Here, there is none at all, and aside from viewing it as a specimen of the day's catch, it fades away."

Blame Clinton then.  She effectively hit Obama on several "gotcha" moments.  Luckily Obama is one of the strongest candidates we've ever fielded, so he was able to reverse the issue and make it a positive, but Clinton hitting him on stupid nonsense issues certainly didn't help things.

Oh well, it made him stronger, so in a way, I guess we can thank Clinton for the weak BS gotcha politics she thought she had to use to defeat her opponent.


by RussTC3 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:54:38 PM EST

Re: Typical modern political journalism (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, Russ, that mean, mean Hillary started it. But that gallant Obama resisted it until he was FORCED to respond.

That about summarize it for you?


by dembluestates on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:04:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical modern political journalism (none / 0)

Clinton wasn't being "mean" as you say.  She was just being a typical old-style politician using weak tactics because she realized she can't win any other way.

Obama's not a wimp, he fought back aggressively and turned the negatives into positives.


by RussTC3 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:22:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly (2.00 / 3)

Look at the whole white voter issue.  Obama has no trouble winning white voters outside of Appalachia.  Yet, Senator Clinton and her media supporters (CNN can you hear me), spin endlessly on and on and on over Obama's bitter comment and how he can not win white voters anywhere.

And if you notice, Sen. Obama himself has not jumped all over her, as she did on his bitter comment.  He has shown the restraint that he said he would.  Sen. Clinton just wants to return to the politics of the 1990s, and I, and many Obama supporters, never want to go back there.


by monkeyga on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:05:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (none / 0)

Obama went into the politics of the '90's from the very beginning.  He was out there from the beginning with personal attacks which played off and reinforced all the character assassination of Hillary by the Right for fifteen years.

He and/or his campaign blanketed big states with false negative mailers and radio ads which described Hillary and her campaign as "disingenuous," "divisive," "untruthful," "dishonest," "polarizing," "calculating," "saying whatever it takes to win," "attempting to deceive the American people," "one of the most secretive in America," "deliberately misleading," "literally willing to do anything to win," "cold" "playing politics with war"  y0ou name it.

Obama supporters just never seem to realize or admit it happened, and they liked it.


by dembluestates on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:21:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (none / 0)

None of that is "gotcha" politics.


by letterc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:39:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (none / 0)

Uh, no, this RFK bullshit is.

The "Hillary is dissing MLK" is.

The "Bill played the race card in SC with Jesse Jackson" is.

The "Hillary in Tuszla never faced sniperfire" is.

The "Hillary said Blacks are not hardworking" is.

All of these contributed to by the OBama campaign and pushed by their media moles at Politico, NBC and MSNBC, among many others.


by dembluestates on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:46:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (none / 0)

Errr, Florida and Ohio and Pennsylvania are in Appalachia?

Obama was trounced by Clinton among White voters in all these huge states..


by dembluestates on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:37:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (none / 0)

Florida isn't, but Ohio and Pennsylvania have significant chunks of Appalachia in them. Surely you know this?


by letterc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:40:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (none / 0)

Ohio is in Appalachia?  Maybe some small part of it, certainly not a large part.  Pennsylvania is a stretch, too, being at the very northern tip of it.

And Florida for sure is not.  And how about Texas, Arkansas, Indiana?  Hillary beat Obama big among Whites here, too.

My point, that Hillary's strength among Whites extends far beyond the main Appalachia states of West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama, stands.


by dembluestates on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:01:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (none / 0)

Actually, Clinton's strength with white voters extends all across the South (except Virginia). It is just more notable in Appalachia because there aren't very many black people in Appalachia (and Appalachia extends Southern anti-black hostility up into northern states). So you are right that the comment you replied to neglected to mention that Obama also does badly among white people in a region where white people have overwhelmingly voted against Democratic presidential candidates since Nixon made the Republicans the party of racists (the Southern Strategy).

However, on the question of whether Pennsylvania and Ohio are part of Appalachia, perhaps you'd like to take up the question with the Appalachian Regional Commission, whose authority covers the region shown here:
map of Appalachia, showing that the majority of Pennsylvania is Appalachian, and that a broad swath of Ohio is Appalachia as well


by letterc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:18:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's the deal- (2.00 / 4)

Memorial Day analogy for you guys:

If you light the grill, and keep adding lighter fluid to the fire, the fire will get big.  If you spill the fuel on yourself and stick your hand over the grill, you're liable to get burned yourself.

-Reverend Wright "He wouldn't have been MY pastor"
-Bittergate (see the COUNTLESS ads she ran, and the number of times she brought it up)
-Mark Penn-isms "That's change you can Xerox!"
-Rezko (despite complete exoneration
-"Fairy tale"
-Waaahh he flicked me off (with two fingers???)

Obama sat there and deflected, sometimes at peril to his polling that day, without firing back at Clinton.  When she called him an elitist in PA, he didn't point out her $109 million fortune and Yale degree.  When she made fun of Reverend Wright, he didn't bring up Lewinsky.

And now the tables are turned.  Obama, a class act as usual, didn't push this.  He forgave her and blew it off in the media. Axlerod defended her.  And all the Clintonites here whine about the media is on Barack's side (sniffle) and how this is gotcha politics (sniffle).

Forgive me, but you've made you bed.  Enjoy lying in it.


John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.
by ihaveseenenough on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:56:38 PM EST

Re: Here's the deal- (none / 0)

Unity!

Change!

End of division!

Woo hoo!


by Juno on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:58:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the deal- (2.00 / 3)

I'm for all of the above.

But I am not going to sit around and watch people try to destroy my candidate (and, if you're a real Democrat, probably your candidate as well).  People throw everything in the world at someone that they happen to believe is "unelectable" without stopping to think about WHY.  It's no different than watching the Fox anchors recite talking points sometime.

I take comfort in the fact that MyDD is probably the place where we see the worst of this.  Alegre doesn't represent Democrats, or women, any more than some of the die-hard Obamaites represent Democrats, or women.  Most of them do NOT think the way she, and her posse here, does.  If I had to equate, I would say Alegre represents the view of a Clinton campaign worker.  Of COURSE she's not for Obama.  

But that doesn't mean I have to sit on my hands and be quiet just because Obama is.  I don't have to listen to this without responding.  I don't rep any campaign, I can say what I want.

I'm for Unity.
I'm for Change.
I'm not for the "end of division" because I don't think there really is one.  I think there will be a lot of hand-wringing and apologies from both sides in a month, and then again when we win BIG in November with Obama.


John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.
by ihaveseenenough on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:09:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the deal- (none / 0)

I agree with you, I'm for unity as well but we're not going to ever convince someone not bound by logic in their hatred.  The only thing acceptable to certain people here would be for all of us Obama supporters to just pack up and leave.

This person finds every thread and injects something negative about Obama or his supporters into it. There are several here the same way.  And then they come back later in the thread and say "Obamakins are mean and hateful".  Sheesh, it's an endless circle of hate.

Don't bother.  Let them have their forum, leave them be, and in November they can figure out for themselves whether they want to vote for a pro-life, 100 year war guy like McCain or for Obama.  Those are the two real choices and if they vote McCain, they never stood for anything Hillary believes in.


Let's elect a Dem President!
by SpanishFly on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:34:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the deal- (none / 0)

The talking points again Juno?

Unity!

Change!

WOOT! WOOT!

You really don't have anything else do you?


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:16:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the deal- (none / 0)

Ooo, that nice nice Obama!  The class act!  He deflected, he genuflected, he never did get his hands dirty, did he?

Obama supporters make me laugh, too.

Juno, you got them pegged to a "t"!!


by dembluestates on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:06:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the deal- (none / 0)

heh heh I just burns inside knowing the Clintons got out hustled by the Negro!!!!


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:08:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wonderful (none / 0)

I couldn't have said it better myself.


by monkeyga on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the deal- (1.50 / 2)

Man,you guys have really bought a load of BS.

I remember being amazed at how so many bought Bush's BS about being so compassionate and such a nice guy too.

Americans, as a culture, are so naive.


by Juno on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:13:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the deal- (1.00 / 2)

Oh please... considering all you do is post ignorant, crybaby troll nonsense.. you don't have a leg to stand on.


by CaptainMorgan on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:01:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Typical modern political journalism (2.00 / 1)

Where was this post during "bittergate"?


by Bobby Obama on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:57:57 PM EST

Re: Typical modern political journalism (2.00 / 6)

Here's Hillary playing 'gotcha' journalism when Kerry botched his joke in 2006.

From the NY Times:

Mr. Kerry's prepared remarks to California students on Monday called for him to say, "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush." In his delivery, he dropped the word "us."

Democrats came out strongly against him. Representative Harold E. Ford Jr., who is running for an open Senate seat in Tennessee, said Mr. Kerry was "wrong to say what he did," and Senat